From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

I'm really looking forward to seeing how he does against Albon. I've always thought Albon to be a
top driver - and I think Sainz is up there too. It'll be interesting, I think Albon will have the
edge though.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 2024-07-30 9:16 AM, ~misfit~ wrote:

I'm really looking forward to seeing how he does against Albon. I've
always thought Albon to be a top driver - and I think Sainz is up there
too. It'll be interesting, I think Albon will have the edge though.

One reads about drivers having a preference for a car that has
over/understeer or some other drivability trait. Does this give Albon a
bit of an edge since he knows how the car drives? (Assuming that he has persuaded the team to set the car the way he likes. And assuming that
the car can be setup the way he likes.)

And will the car have the same traits next year?

And finally, does Sainz prefer a different setup compared to Albon?

With me being a non-F1 driver, of course, some will want to point out my ignorance and the error of my ways with all this. <g>

It will be something to check out next year, regardless of my knowledge
or lack thereof.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 31/07/2024 6:08 am, pP85PrR wrote:

On 2024-07-30 9:16 AM, ~misfit~ wrote:

I'm really looking forward to seeing how he does against Albon. I've always thought Albon to be a
top driver - and I think Sainz is up there too. It'll be interesting, I think Albon will have the
edge though.

One reads about drivers having a preference for a car that has over/understeer or some other
drivability trait. Does this give Albon a bit of an edge since he knows how the car drives?
(Assuming that he has persuaded the team to set the car the way he likes. And assuming that the car
can be setup the way he likes.)

Initially Albon may have the edge but it won't take long for Sainz to dial the car in to how he
likes it. They're mostly made to be configurable*.

* There's been a lot said about how the RBR car is fundamentally built for Max, that other drivers
have trouble with it and to a certain extant that may be true (though Max has been complaining
about handling a LOT lately). However recently both Horner and Max have being saying this loudly
and often in defence of Checo. Max doesn't want another top-tier driver as a team mate, he's
happier with a journeyman and Horner will back Max to the hilt.

And will the car have the same traits next year?

Apparently there are big changes coming for Williams so probably not.

And finally, does Sainz prefer a different setup compared to Albon?

With the exception of extremes the car can be configured differently for different driving styles.

With me being a non-F1 driver, of course, some will want to point out my ignorance and the error of
my ways with all this. <g>

Ditto. However there are always /those/ people...

It will be something to check out next year, regardless of my knowledge or lack thereof.

I'm looking forward to it. I've wanted to see Albon in a better car for a couple of years now as I
think he's got a lot of potential*. This is about as close as we're going to get for now though.

* One thing, and this bothers me about Lawson too. If a driver has come up through the ranks,
driving new, faster, more challenging cars every year doing really well, if this pattern of
upgrading relentlessly is broken they can lose a lot of their ability to constantly up their game.
When this happens they often find themselves on the back-foot playing catch-up in a series that
doesn't give you a second chance.

Also (this applies to Albon) if a driver spends too long getting every little bit of performance
out of a second-tier car where the car is the limit of performance they can struggle in a top-tier
car where their ability to judge the edge is the limit again. They can adapt but, as I said, F1
often spits out drivers who don't perform within a few races.

So much of real top tier driving is psychological (and learned responses too - above). I didn't
think Lewis would recover from Mercedes drop in performance as well as his loss of Angela Cullen -
I think the two things combined were what drove him to sign with Ferrari. However I think he's got
some of his mojo back now. Also Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him
not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a psych hit realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he thought they did and don't
consider him to be number one.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 31/07/2024 1:13 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:

I didn't
think Lewis would recover from Mercedes drop in performance as well as his loss of Angela Cullen -
I think the two things combined were what drove him to sign with Ferrari....

In case anyone is wondering what Angela's up to these days here's a video released a week ago:
<https://youtu.be/xeaJX9MV-ZI?si=Wjwc0zj3lLClCEY0>

"Formula 1 veteran Angela Cullen gets introduced to life in America — and INDYCAR"

(Of course 'Indycar' is capitalised in the title because it's the official NTT Indycar Series channel.)
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him

not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a psych hit realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he thought
they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then, a team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.
--
Sir Tim
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him
not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a psych hit
realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he thought
they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then, a team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver they couldn't have developed the
car as much as they have. It's as much Lando's car as it is the design team's who built it around
him. Oscar will have his day but the present and near future at McLaren IMO should belong to Lando
when it comes down to the team deciding who wins a race.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him
not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a psych hit realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he thought they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then, a team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

Because of this, and their IndyCar driver drama this year, I am starting to wonder if McLaren has an issue in the driver relations department.


* SLMR 2.1a * I had another drink...Drink-a-drink-a-drink-a-drink...
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 2024-08-01 05:35, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him
not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a psych hit >>> realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he thought >>> they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then, a team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver they couldn't have developed the car as much as they have. It's as much
Lando's car as it is the design team's who built it around him. Oscar
will have his day but the present and near future at McLaren IMO should belong to Lando when it comes down to the team deciding who wins a race.

McLaren fairly clearly had an agreement about keeping the order of
finish the same as immediately prior to the final pit stops of the race.

Norris was right to swap places if he agreed to that.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 2/08/2024 3:26 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-01 05:35, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him
not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a psych
hit
realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he
thought
they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then, a
team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver
they couldn't have developed the car as much as they have. It's as
much Lando's car as it is the design team's who built it around him.
Oscar will have his day but the present and near future at McLaren IMO
should belong to Lando when it comes down to the team deciding who
wins a race.

McLaren fairly clearly had an agreement about keeping the order of
finish the same as immediately prior to the final pit stops of the race.

Norris was right to swap places if he agreed to that.

And if he had done it earlier, the presumably they would have been free
to subsequently race. Shoots himself in foot....

geoff

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 2024-08-04 15:27, Geoff wrote:

On 2/08/2024 3:26 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-01 05:35, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him
not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a
psych hit
realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he
thought
they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then, a
team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver
they couldn't have developed the car as much as they have. It's as
much Lando's car as it is the design team's who built it around him.
Oscar will have his day but the present and near future at McLaren
IMO should belong to Lando when it comes down to the team deciding
who wins a race.

McLaren fairly clearly had an agreement about keeping the order of
finish the same as immediately prior to the final pit stops of the race.

Norris was right to swap places if he agreed to that.

And if he had done it earlier, the presumably they would have been free
to subsequently race. Shoots himself in foot....

I'm sorry, but if WHO had done WHAT earlier?

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 5/08/2024 10:59 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-04 15:27, Geoff wrote:

On 2/08/2024 3:26 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-01 05:35, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him
not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a
psych hit
realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he
thought
they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then,
a team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver
they couldn't have developed the car as much as they have. It's as
much Lando's car as it is the design team's who built it around him.
Oscar will have his day but the present and near future at McLaren
IMO should belong to Lando when it comes down to the team deciding
who wins a race.

McLaren fairly clearly had an agreement about keeping the order of
finish the same as immediately prior to the final pit stops of the race. >>>
Norris was right to swap places if he agreed to that.

And if he had done it earlier, the presumably they would have been
free to subsequently race. Shoots himself in foot....

I'm sorry, but if WHO had done WHAT earlier?

"....to swap places if he agreed to that."

geoff
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 5/08/2024 10:27 am, Geoff wrote:

On 2/08/2024 3:26 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-01 05:35, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him
not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a psych hit >>>>> realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he thought >>>>> they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then, a team >>>> in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver they couldn't have developed
the car as much as they have. It's as much Lando's car as it is the design team's who built it
around him. Oscar will have his day but the present and near future at McLaren IMO should belong
to Lando when it comes down to the team deciding who wins a race.

McLaren fairly clearly had an agreement about keeping the order of finish the same as immediately
prior to the final pit stops of the race.

Norris was right to swap places if he agreed to that.

And if he had done it earlier, the presumably they would have been free to subsequently race.
Shoots himself in foot....

How could he be free to race if they agreed to keep the order the same as prior to the final pit
stop? Lando's no dullard, if that was an option he'd have taken it.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 2024-08-04 18:20, Geoff wrote:

On 5/08/2024 10:59 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-04 15:27, Geoff wrote:

On 2/08/2024 3:26 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-01 05:35, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him >>>>>>> not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a
psych hit
realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he >>>>>>> thought
they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then, >>>>>> a team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver
they couldn't have developed the car as much as they have. It's as
much Lando's car as it is the design team's who built it around
him. Oscar will have his day but the present and near future at
McLaren IMO should belong to Lando when it comes down to the team
deciding who wins a race.

McLaren fairly clearly had an agreement about keeping the order of
finish the same as immediately prior to the final pit stops of the
race.

Norris was right to swap places if he agreed to that.

And if he had done it earlier, the presumably they would have been
free to subsequently race. Shoots himself in foot....

I'm sorry, but if WHO had done WHAT earlier?

"....to swap places if he agreed to that."

Remove the pronouns and try again:


"And if he had done it earlier, the presumably they would have been free
to subsequently race."

Just recast that sentence using nouns/names.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 6/08/2024 12:56 am, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 5/08/2024 10:27 am, Geoff wrote:

On 2/08/2024 3:26 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-01 05:35, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him
not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a
psych hit
realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he
thought
they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then,
a team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver
they couldn't have developed the car as much as they have. It's as
much Lando's car as it is the design team's who built it around him.
Oscar will have his day but the present and near future at McLaren
IMO should belong to Lando when it comes down to the team deciding
who wins a race.

McLaren fairly clearly had an agreement about keeping the order of
finish the same as immediately prior to the final pit stops of the race. >>>
Norris was right to swap places if he agreed to that.

And if he had done it earlier, the presumably they would have been
free to subsequently race. Shoots himself in foot....

How could he be free to race if they agreed to keep the order the same
as prior to the final pit stop? Lando's no dullard, if that was an
option he'd have taken it.

We cannot know the details, but I would imagine such an agreement would
relate to routine' pitstops , and not strategic ones like this.

geoff
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 2024-08-06 18:28, Geoff wrote:

On 6/08/2024 12:56 am, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 5/08/2024 10:27 am, Geoff wrote:

On 2/08/2024 3:26 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-01 05:35, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him >>>>>>> not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a
psych hit
realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he >>>>>>> thought
they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then, >>>>>> a team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver
they couldn't have developed the car as much as they have. It's as
much Lando's car as it is the design team's who built it around
him. Oscar will have his day but the present and near future at
McLaren IMO should belong to Lando when it comes down to the team
deciding who wins a race.

McLaren fairly clearly had an agreement about keeping the order of
finish the same as immediately prior to the final pit stops of the
race.

Norris was right to swap places if he agreed to that.

And if he had done it earlier, the presumably they would have been
free to subsequently race. Shoots himself in foot....

How could he be free to race if they agreed to keep the order the same
as prior to the final pit stop? Lando's no dullard, if that was an
option he'd have taken it.

We cannot know the details, but I would imagine such an agreement would relate to  routine' pitstops , and not strategic ones like this.

What is the difference between a "routine" and a "strategic" pitstop?

Both Piastri and Norris were on a two stop strategy.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 7/08/2024 1:32 pm, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-06 18:28, Geoff wrote:

On 6/08/2024 12:56 am, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 5/08/2024 10:27 am, Geoff wrote:

On 2/08/2024 3:26 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-01 05:35, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him >>>>>>>> not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a >>>>>>>> psych hit
realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he >>>>>>>> thought
they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was
then, a team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver >>>>>> they couldn't have developed the car as much as they have. It's as >>>>>> much Lando's car as it is the design team's who built it around
him. Oscar will have his day but the present and near future at
McLaren IMO should belong to Lando when it comes down to the team >>>>>> deciding who wins a race.

McLaren fairly clearly had an agreement about keeping the order of
finish the same as immediately prior to the final pit stops of the
race.

Norris was right to swap places if he agreed to that.

And if he had done it earlier, the presumably they would have been
free to subsequently race. Shoots himself in foot....

How could he be free to race if they agreed to keep the order the
same as prior to the final pit stop? Lando's no dullard, if that was
an option he'd have taken it.

We cannot know the details, but I would imagine such an agreement
would relate to  routine' pitstops , and not strategic ones like this.

What is the difference between a "routine" and a "strategic" pitstop?

Both Piastri and Norris were on a two stop strategy.

And PIA's second stop was stragetic for a specific defensive purpose
(for NOR's benefit) as opposed to any pre-planned tyre stragety which
would not have had him so disadvantaged.

Which is why NOR was leaned on to give the place back.

geoff


--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: rec.autos.sport.f1

On 7/08/2024 1:28 pm, Geoff wrote:

On 6/08/2024 12:56 am, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 5/08/2024 10:27 am, Geoff wrote:

On 2/08/2024 3:26 am, Alan wrote:

On 2024-08-01 05:35, ~misfit~ wrote:

On 1/08/2024 9:29 pm, Sir Tim wrote:

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Lando's relatively poor performance at Spa I think is down to him >>>>>>> not being able to keep the win in the previous race. He took a psych hit
realising that the team
he's spent so long developing with don't value him as much as he thought
they did and don't
consider him to be number one.

Yes. IIRC, Lando committed to a long contract with, what was then, a team
in the doldrums. That act of faith deserves a reward.

I agree. Without the unwavering services of such a talented driver they couldn't have
developed the car as much as they have. It's as much Lando's car as it is the design team's
who built it around him. Oscar will have his day but the present and near future at McLaren
IMO should belong to Lando when it comes down to the team deciding who wins a race.

McLaren fairly clearly had an agreement about keeping the order of finish the same as
immediately prior to the final pit stops of the race.

Norris was right to swap places if he agreed to that.

And if he had done it earlier, the presumably they would have been free to subsequently race.
Shoots himself in foot....

How could he be free to race if they agreed to keep the order the same as prior to the final pit
stop? Lando's no dullard, if that was an option he'd have taken it.

We cannot know the details, but I would imagine such an agreement would relate to  routine'
pitstops , and not strategic ones like this.

Yep. However Lando would know and, if what you suggest was an option you can bet he'd have done it.
He is usually quite a bit faster than Oscar later in the race.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113