Just terrible stuff ... I'm watching some of the coverage on YouTube viaocal
media with choppers and cameras and it's heart breaking stuff :(
Folks, sending sympathies, kind thoughts and best wishes to anyone impacted by the terrible fires happening now in LA. I hope if you (or anyone else you know in the area) are impacted you and your family are safe and sound.
paulie420 wrote to Avon <=-
Folks, sending sympathies, kind thoughts and best wishes to anyone impacted by the terrible fires happening now in LA. I hope if you (or anyone else you know in the area) are impacted you and your family are safe and sound.
My Lord - one of the worst events I've ever witnessed. I know the area,
a bit - as a tourist anyway - and can't imagine how CA has let this
fire issue become such a HUGE one.
My Lord - one of the worst events I've ever witnessed. I know the are a bit - as a tourist anyway - and can't imagine how CA has let this fire issue become such a HUGE one.
How this has come to pass is very obvious... I would tell you (and
I'm sure you actually already know), but... we aren't supposed to talk politics in here... :-)
My Lord - one of the worst events I've ever witnessed. I know the area, a bit as a tourist anyway - and can't imagine how CA has let this fire issue become such a HUGE one.
For now, I'm praying for all involved - for tomorrow, I'm worried about more insurance companies leaving and the repercussions for those who AREN'T filthy rich - this is insane!
Dumas Walker wrote to PAULIE420 <=-
I have heard reports from not so trusted sources that there were areas where there was no water in the hydrant network. :(
For now, I'm praying for all involved - for tomorrow, I'm worried
insurance companies leaving and the repercussions for
those who AREN'T filthy rich - this is insane!
Apparently, even some of the rich folks whose houses are gone are
alredy running into insurance problems. Can't imagine what it will be like for those who are of lesser means.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
I have heard reports from not so trusted sources that there were areas where there was no water in the hydrant network. :(
All of our cities have crumbling infrastructure, because improvements
need to be voted in. You're seeing water infrastructure that's close to
a century old that has been voted down over the years by republicans
and democrats. But, that's being left out by the accusers.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
This disaster didn't happen because of "crumbling infrastructure". The
pipes worked fine. The cause of it was how
budgets/equipment/preparations were gutted by Democrat policies, even in
the face of overwhelming warnings given. It was more important to
shelter illegal aliens and support LGBQT folks
than it was to protect the general population from obvious and looming threats. Really, it's that simple.
Al wrote to Gamgee <=-
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
This disaster didn't happen because of "crumbling infrastructure". The pipes worked fine. The cause of it was how
budgets/equipment/preparations were gutted by Democrat policies, even in
the face of overwhelming warnings given. It was more important to
shelter illegal aliens and support LGBQT folks
This has nothing to do with illegal immigrants or LGBTQ folks.
There is not a fire depatrment anywhere in the world that can take on a fire like those happening in the LA area. If there is a fire in your
house you call the fire dept and they come and put out the fire. If
they get there early enough the damage may be minimal or if the fire
rages enough the damage will be bigger.
These fires are very different.
than it was to protect the general population from obvious and looming threats. Really, it's that simple.
The LA fire dept is there to protect people. Fire and hurricane force winds and dry conditions don't mix very well.
Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
in the face of overwhelming warnings given. It was more important to shelter illegal aliens and support LGBQT folks than it was to protect
the general population from obvious and looming threats. Really, it's that simple.
This has nothing to do with illegal immigrants or LGBTQ folks.
Not directly, no, and I didn't say it did.
The LA fire dept is there to protect people. Fire and hurricane force
winds and dry conditions don't mix very well.
True, of course. What might have made a difference is that nobody did
any (pre-fire) preventive work, such as the critical removal of dry "underbrush" which was prevalent there.
Another question is why there was no water in many/most of the hydrants.
"Drought" is not the answer to that, by the way. Mis-management of
water resources (and again the pesky budget management issue) was the
cause of that.
Apparently, even some of the rich folks whose houses are gone are
alredy running into insurance problems. Can't imagine what it will be like for those who are of lesser means.
That's OK, the landlords of residences still standing are already
starting to price-gouge. We're All Fine.
There is not a fire depatrment anywhere in the world that can take on a fire like those happening in the LA area.
Preparation would have very much prevented these fires from being so destructive, especially when you *know* you are in a long-term drought.
My Lord - one of the worst events I've ever witnessed. I know the area, a bit - as a tourist anyway - and can't imagine how CA has let this fire issue become such a HUGE one.
For now, I'm praying for all involved - for tomorrow, I'm worried about more insurance companies leaving and the repercussions for those who AREN'T filthy rich - this is insane!
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Preparation would have very much prevented these fires from
being so destructive, especially when you *know* you are in
a long-term drought.
Prevention and preparation are always good but these fires
are in built up areas, more or less in the city. I'm not
sure there is much underbrush there or what activities are
done to clear it or how much of a difference that would
make.
My understanding is that ground-zero for these fires was in the
unhinhabited areas (nearby hills) and then moving close to buildings/communities.
Al wrote to Gamgee <=-
This has nothing to do with illegal immigrants or LGBTQ folks.
Not directly, no, and I didn't say it did.
I don't think talk of illegal immigrants or LGBTQ folks belongs in this conversation.
The LA fire dept is there to protect people. Fire and hurricane force
winds and dry conditions don't mix very well.
True, of course. What might have made a difference is that nobody did
any (pre-fire) preventive work, such as the critical removal of dry "underbrush" which was prevalent there.
That underbrush is always going to be there. When you clear it it grows back.
If there was a way to know when and where a fire will happen in advance you can plan for it, but there is no way to know in advance.
"Drought" is not the answer to that, by the way. Mis-management of
water resources (and again the pesky budget management issue) was the
cause of that.
Pesky budget issues have been around since the beggining of time and
when the last human turns out the lights those problems will remain. ;)
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-
Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
in the face of overwhelming warnings given. It was more important to shelter illegal aliens and support LGBQT folks than it was to protect
the general population from obvious and looming threats. Really, it's that simple.
No, it's not that simple. It's not either/or.
Okay, but it's a matter of priorities. Why were the fire department budgets slashed under Mayor Bass? To the tune of MILLIONS of dollars. Where did tha money actually go?
True enough, but when governments mis-manage available money (wrong priorities) with KNOWN dangerous conditions, bad things happen. You can deny/defend them all you want, but the facts are right there in your
face and can't be denied. Should we talk about un-maintained electrical distribution equipment/infrastructure, which MAY have been the cause of these fires starting? It's certainly been known to happen in northern California, where they even have had planned power cut-offs during high fire danger periods, for ...... reducing the chance of crappy equipment starting wildfires... Hmmmm......
I don't think talk of illegal immigrants or LGBTQ folks belongs in this
conversation.
Your opinion is noted. Would you rather use the term "misplaced budget priorities by state/local government"?
That underbrush is always going to be there. When you clear it it grows
back.
Yup, and you clear it again. Do you mow your lawn on a regular basis? Why...? Yes! To keep it cleared!
Al wrote to Gamgee <=-
That underbrush is always going to be there. When you clear it it grows
back.
Yup, and you clear it again. Do you mow your lawn on a regular basis? Why...? Yes! To keep it cleared!
I do it to keep my yard looking good, not because it is a fire hazard.
If there was a fire hazard I would work that too, as I am sure people
in LA do as well.
paulie420 wrote to Gamgee <=-
True enough, but when governments mis-manage available money (wrong priorities) with KNOWN dangerous conditions, bad things happen. You can deny/defend them all you want, but the facts are right there in your
face and can't be denied. Should we talk about un-maintained electrical distribution equipment/infrastructure, which MAY have been the cause of these fires starting? It's certainly been known to happen in northern California, where they even have had planned power cut-offs during high fire danger periods, for ...... reducing the chance of crappy equipment starting wildfires... Hmmmm......
I thought I hated you, Gamgee - but we're on the same page.... just a couple wierdos here...
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: LA Fires
By: Gamgee to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jan 13 2025 10:31 pm
Okay, but it's a matter of priorities. Why were the fire department budgets slashed under Mayor Bass? To the tune of MILLIONS of dollars. Where did tha money actually go?
https://www.ocregister.com/2025/01/09/factcheck-was-the-lafd-budget-cut- no-it-actually-increased-heres-how/
"On Thursday, a spokesperson for L.A. City Councilmember Bob
Blumenfield, who was budget chair last year, said the city increased
the fire department's overall budget by approximately $53 million in
the current fiscal year. However, $76 million - intended to pay for
fire department personnel - was placed in a fund separate from the fire department's regular account when the budget was adopted because
contract negotiations with department employees were still taking place
at the time."
As a result, if you just compare the LAFD's budget last year to this year's, it looks like it went down $23M. But that's because when the budget was adopted last May or June, the city was still negotiating
those new contracts. The $76M that was set aside in a separate account ultimately was moved once the MOUs were finalized.
If there was a fire hazard I would work that too, as I am sure people
in LA do as well.
Well, it's quite obvious that many/most/all of them don't, as the
underbrush that was WARNED about was NOT removed, by anybody. A
probable significant contributor to the rapid spread of the fires. Not
sure why you would even say that...
Preparation would have very much prevented these fires from being so destructive, especially when you *know* you are in a long-term drought.
Prevention and preparation are always good but these fires are in built up areas, more or less in the city. I'm not sure there is much underbrush there o
what activities are done to clear it or how much of a difference that would make.
This reminds me of a time in my youth when I was in the Yukon somewhere around
Yellowknife. All I had to do to start a fire was gather a few handfulls of needles that were laying on the ground all about and that was enough to get th
fire started. At that time of year those needles lay on the ground everywhere.
Thankfully heat and drought are not issues in the Yukon.
My understanding is that ground-zero for these fires was in the
unhinhabited areas (nearby hills) and then moving close to buildings/communities.
Your opinion is noted. Would you rather use the term "misplaced budget priorities by state/local government"?
Pesky budget issues have been around since the beggining of time and when the last human turns out the lights those problems will remain. ;)
True enough, but when governments mis-manage available money (wrong priorities) with KNOWN dangerous conditions, bad things happen. You can deny/defend them all you want, but the facts are right there in your
face and can't be denied. Should we talk about un-maintained electrical distribution equipment/infrastructure, which MAY have been the cause of
these fires starting? It's certainly been known to happen in northern California, where they even have had planned power cut-offs during high
fire danger periods, for ...... reducing the chance of crappy equipment starting wildfires... Hmmmm......
I do it to keep my yard looking good, not because it is a fire hazard.
Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Yeah..... Interesting article. However.... (as is your tendency) -
you left out some important parts.
Uber-Geek wrote to Gamgee <=-
When fires like this happen they rely on air units to deliver the
majority of the water supression. With the winds in the 70MPH+ range,
that was not possible during the initial stages of the fires.
The time for focusing on money and who to point a political finger at
is not now. Right now everyone needs to focus on fighting the fires and helping people. Those in the policital spectrum who only point fingers should remember there are three others pointing right back to them.
Dry needles are good kendling, IIRC. Didn't they have a big fire around Yellowknife, or someone in the Yukon/NWT, in pretty recent times? I took note of it as it is an area I hope to visit someday (along with Alaska).
Folks, sending sympathies, kind thoughts and best wishes to anyone impacted by the terrible fires happening now in LA. I hope if you (or anyone else you know in the area) are impacted you and your family are safe and sound.
Al wrote to Gamgee <=-
If there was a fire hazard I would work that too, as I am sure people
in LA do as well.
Well, it's quite obvious that many/most/all of them don't, as the
underbrush that was WARNED about was NOT removed, by anybody. A
probable significant contributor to the rapid spread of the fires. Not
sure why you would even say that...
What underbrush was warned about and not removed?
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-
Yeah..... Interesting article. However.... (as is your tendency) -
you left out some important parts.
I included the URL for people to investigate.
We've gone down the political rabbit hole here, which we all know to
be
against Avon's wishes. If you want to continue this discussion, please
find me online elsewhere.
Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-
True enough, but when governments mis-manage available money (wrong priorities) with KNOWN dangerous conditions, bad things happen. You can deny/defend them all you want, but the facts are right there in your
face and can't be denied. Should we talk about un-maintained electrical distribution equipment/infrastructure, which MAY have been the cause of these fires starting? It's certainly been known to happen in northern California, where they even have had planned power cut-offs during high
fire danger periods, for ...... reducing the chance of crappy equipment starting wildfires... Hmmmm......
Part of that issue may be PG&E has several politicians in its back
pockets that allow them to get away with a whole lot of things they
should be held accountable for... like starting fires with poorly maintained equipment.
I am not sure that PG&E powers the areas in question, but it is a big provided in California.
Uber-Geek wrote to Gamgee <=-
Since this topic has been clogging the feeds for a while, I'll give my
two cents:
It was never about lack of money or water.
As stated by an LA firefighter offical: No system in existence would
have been able to deliver enough water to supress the fires. The amount
of sustained water release needed to quell a fire driven by high winds simply isn't available.
When fires like this happen they rely on air units to deliver the
majority of the water supression. With the winds in the 70MPH+ range,
that was not possible during the initial stages of the fires.
Once the winds had died down, you got an idiot out there flying his
drone and it hits one of the planes, which resulted in them grounding
all air operations for a time. I hope his Youtube channel gets lots of views.
We're seeing positive suppression now that the air units are able to resume operations. Had they been able to do so in the beginning, it
would have been a different story.
The time for focusing on money and who to point a political finger at
is not now. Right now everyone needs to focus on fighting the fires and helping people. Those in the policital spectrum who only point fingers should remember there are three others pointing right back to them.
What underbrush was warned about and not removed?
It's a pretty easy search term... Here's one example:
https://nypost.com/2025/01/09/us-news/bass-newsom-ignored-past-warn ings-about-a-wildfires/
There are plenty more. Let me know if I can help you understand things better.
I don't think this has been political, just trying to keep the FACTS straight. But OK.
From what I've seen, what's being discussed are the possible/probable causes and contributing factors to the fires. Not political, just factual.
Al wrote to Gamgee <=-
What underbrush was warned about and not removed?
It's a pretty easy search term... Here's one example:
https://nypost.com/2025/01/09/us-news/bass-newsom-ignored-past-warn ings-about-a-wildfires/
There are plenty more. Let me know if I can help you understand things better.
Are you serious?
The New York Post is not a place to get facts. They publish stories.
The underbrush is not the problem. Search that.
Al wrote to Gamgee <=-
I don't think this has been political, just trying to keep the FACTS straight. But OK.
You started out with "illegal immigrants" and "LGBTQ people" and then
went on to "the underbrush".
Those are just right wing political narratives.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-
From what I've seen, what's being discussed are the possible/probable causes and contributing factors to the fires. Not political, just factual.
You accused me of supporting an agenda. That's where fact checking
becomes political.
You started out with "illegal immigrants" and "LGBTQ people" and then
went on to "the underbrush".
Those are just right wing political narratives.
Not sure where you're coming up with this stuff.
Al wrote to Gamgee <=-
You started out with "illegal immigrants" and "LGBTQ people" and then
went on to "the underbrush".
Those are just right wing political narratives.
Not sure where you're coming up with this stuff.
You posted it.
If you want to continue we can do it in one the areas I listed earlier
or you can suggest an area we can move to.
I won't reply further in this net for the reasons I mentioned before.
Why'd you snip out the remainder of my previous reply?
Rhetorical question - I know the answer.
If you want to continue we can do it in one the areas I listed earlier
or you can suggest an area we can move to.
I won't reply further in this net for the reasons I mentioned before.
Yeah, I'm done with you too. You've got your mind made up, and don't
want to hear the actual facts. <SHRUG>
That underbrush is always going to be there. When you clear it it grows back.
That underbrush is always going to be there. When you clear it it grows
back.
Well, I will stop trimming my nails, since they are going to grow back anyway.
Let me be clear. The $17 million budget cut and elimination of our civilian
positions like our mechanics did and has and will continue to severely impact our ability to repair our apparatus, Crowley said on CNN, adding that more than 100 fire apparatuses are out of service.
Having these apparatus and the proper amount of mechanics would have helped, she said on CNN.
Yeah..... Interesting article. However.... (as is your tendency) -
you left out some important parts.
I included the URL for people to investigate.
We've gone down the political rabbit hole here, which we all know to be
against Avon's wishes. If you want to continue this discussion, please
find me online elsewhere.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-
I included the URL for people to investigate.
We've gone down the political rabbit hole here, which we all know to be
against Avon's wishes. If you want to continue this discussion, please
find me online elsewhere.
Once the winds had died down, you got an idiot out there flying his drone and it hits one of the planes, which resulted in them grounding all air operations for a time. I hope his Youtube channel gets lots of views.
Grounding all flights seems like an over-reaction to one incident.
That underbrush is always going to be there. When you clear it it grows back.
Well, I will stop trimming my nails, since they are going to grow back anyway.
Thank you. All safe here for now, but still windy as hell.
Al wrote to Gamgee <=-
You started out with "illegal immigrants" and "LGBTQ people" and then
went on to "the underbrush".
Those are just right wing political narratives.
Not sure where you're coming up with this stuff.
You posted it.
Why'd you snip out the remainder of my previous reply?
Rhetorical question - I know the answer.
If you want to continue we can do it in one the areas I listed earlie or you can suggest an area we can move to.
I won't reply further in this net for the reasons I mentioned before.
Yeah, I'm done with you too. You've got your mind made up, and don't want to hear the actual facts. <SHRUG>
Dude, take the 'debate' and 'politics' to an othernet thanks.
Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-
You are both free to discuss this in FIDO POLITICS if you so desire.
Thank you. All safe here for now, but still windy as hell.
Thank you. All safe here for now, but still windy as hell.
Where abouts are you Digital Man?
My niece(12 years old) and brother in law
are in Monrovia, we haven't heard from them in some time. They had to evacuate but I'm not on facebook so not privy to the status updates as to whether they have a home left or not or have been allowed to return. So apocolyptic, I pray all within our retro community are safe and with homes intact.
Hows the air? If it's that windy thats gotta be tough. I was raised in Colorado (born in Alameda CA,) and remember how bad Denver would get when the foothills would catch fire. Bad stuff.
Indeed, I hope your family and their property all made it out unscathed!
I live in the state and I live 30-40 miles from what happened, the
problem is without reforms no one is going to get insurance for their homes. Even people in Rancho Cucamonga who live near the mountains face the spectre of getting their policies canceled.
Indeed, I hope your family and their property all made it out unscathed!
We haven't heard from them as of late. Have the winds died down and fires out? I feel like it just dropped off the news
It's devastating that many lost their coverage
through, I believe State Farm(?), prior to the fires.
Dumas Walker wrote to THE GODFATHER <=-
My understanding is that at least some areas out in California saw insurance become unavailable for similar reasons... the homes were in areas where the fire danger is similarly too high to ignore.
I know people in California who've never experienced a fire in their
lifetime get their coverage declined after many years for "fire danger".
The stories of State Farm using drones to find technicalities to get out
of policy renewal has made the news, too.
My understanding is that at least some areas out in California saw insurance become unavailable for similar reasons... the homes were in areas where the fire danger is similarly too high to ignore.
I know people in California who've never experienced a fire in their
lifetime get their coverage declined after many years for "fire danger".
The stories of State Farm using drones to find technicalities to get out
of policy renewal has made the news, too.
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